is drupal good

I write this in Jan of 2020 and STILL most of the components we used successfully in D7 don't even have a D8 version. That solution may be a static website, a solution with Contentful, a Craft site, a custom-built CMS, or something we haven’t thought of yet. It may be noted that many of the more 'ambitious' Drupal 6 sites also needed a full migration to Drupal 7 and couldn't be directly upgraded—but for the long tail of smaller sites which usually used core modules and a smattering of contrib modules, and had little if any custom code, the upgrade.php process worked quite well, and resulted in hundreds of thousands of site upgrades that I don't believe we will see with Drupal 7 to Drupal 8. Drupal isn’t bad, Drupal is good. Modules are touted as time saving, and they can be. For those just looking for a tool to facilitate the expression of their thoughts, it's a big middle-finger. Drupal can be a good tool, but I want better tools. So far, everyone has commented, and indeed what this article is about - is the struggle technologically between D<=7 and D8. Drupal helps you create dynamic, content-driven websites. It was hands down cheaper to extract my clients' data from Drupal and import it into wordpress rather than wait on the Core or Plugin upgrades to follow suit. Point is, Drupal has always lagged behind because the platform literally lags behind. - Understand a whole lot of concepts with very unintuitive vocabulary if you want it to be any useful Drupal 8 should have become a new project with a new name and Drupal per se should have stayed it's course. Don't forget that bigger companies support Drupal with people and contribution in core and contrib modules/themes which would not exist if Drupal is made on way as you suggest while then non of this companies would use Drupal. I've tried porting existing sites, and creating new sites in Drupal 8. In this post, we’ll compare Drupal vs WordPress side by side and discuss the pros and cons of each platform. Drupal 8 is way better structured. It depends. 7. ... Tracked as CVE-2020-13671, the vulnerability is ridiculously simple to exploit and relies on the good ol' "double extension" trick. Drupal has always been a developer centered system, however it's even more so with D8. Drupal has a way of making things that should be trivially easy into nightmares that waste huge amounts of time, millions and millions of dollars worth of time across the industry, things that are NECESSARY to get a site launched, and hence, unavoidable. Reported in February 2011, first patch came on the same day, still not fixed, #1679344 Race condition in node_save() when not using DB for cache_field Good for creating large, complex websites Free and open source code: Drupal is completely free which allows it to compete with other similar CMSs like Joomla and WordPress. Just make Drupal work and with the fewest number of moronic inconveniences possible. I've been a fan of you (and your view on Drupal) for several years. The world moved on since Drupal 7. is sound. This. Drupal 7 sites can no longer be upgraded to Drupal 8 with update.php, module migration for Honeypot for Drupal 8, [Meta] Better support for D7 -> D8 contrib migrate, Composer and Drupal are still strange bedfellows, Converting a non-Composer Drupal codebase to use Composer, https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2019#most-loved-dreaded-and-w…, https://www.drupal.org/association/blog/drupal-business-survey-2018, Modern programming paradigms (fewer #DrupalWTFs), 'Getting off the island' and becoming more of a normal PHP application (kinda the opposite of something like Wordpress). I don’t want to dismiss Drupal outright. I know there's great concern with security and passing tests and coding standards, and that's great, but how is that better than modules that don't actually work in the first place? Even adding a module to the composer.json file and running `composer update` isn't enough in some cases because a build process is often required for some front end theming technologies. Drupal 7 was too nerdish. But this is in many cases the straw that breaks the camel's back. Full stop, repeat that. Especially since until Drupal 8, it was not even really possible (except if you were willing to do some really wacky stuff) to manage a Drupal codebase using Composer. Is this a symphony thing? With some of the worst things they need to get away from "but it's always been that way!" A large community, even a nice one, doesn’t equate a highly-skilled one. Every software supplier should have the balls to look critically at his/her product and pose the question: shall we keep on adding stuff to solve (design) errors or shall we do a lessons learned approach and start from scratch? First you lost people who liked Drupal because it was simple and did not want to have to learn how to become more advanced programmers, and secondly you'll never gain the people who are advanced because they already have better options in the advanced arena that have none of the baggage of negative opinion about prior versions of the platform. But I think the usage pattern and value proposition for Drupal has changed. Hosted Apache Solr and Server Check.in are both currently running on Drupal 7 (well, the frontend parts at least), and I have tens of thousands of lines of custom code which integrates with backend APIs (using things like Drupal's Entity API, Form API, Block API, Queue API, etc.). Keeping Drupal 8 up to date now requires an IT person. There are a lot of massive Drupal multisite installations, especially in education and non-profits, where the cost benefit of not having to manage tens or hundreds (or in some cases thousands) of Drupal codebases, CI workflows, and many more production servers (since you can no longer share PHP's opcache between sites, besides some other things) necessitates multisite installation. And get rid of the idiotic 'the website encountered an unexpected error' message for something more useful. This isn’t exclusive to the Drupal community though, and we should see “the community” for what it is: marketing. And for many of the Drupal 7 sites I've built and worked on, this is probably where the majority of the effort would need to happen. However, after building three sites in Drupal 8, I don't want to look back. We are pretty late here btw. Distributed under General Public License (GNU), Drupal is nothing but an open source content management framework. Even if the module has the exact same features and functionality. I think as someone mention above - Drupal is no longer intended for small/medium sites but only for larger enterprise level sites. Things became a bit harder in Drupal 8, because of two things: And these two problems kind of fed into each other—not only did module authors had to often rewrite (or at least radically alter) large swaths of code to support the new Drupal 8 APIs, but they also had to scrap any hook_update() upgrade implementation they may have worked on once that change record was published. However, right now the increase in knowledge required to make a modern Drupal 8 site is huge. 2. You can have a business page with Livestream and media on Facebook for free. Drupal contains taxonomies, content types, blocks, views, and more. In other words, Drupal is a pain to use for anyone involved, especially those with no coding experience, however those with no coding experience are expected to be the ones using Drupal... 4) Drupal is sloooooow to adopt. The admin interface can be customized, but that carries additional cost, and plenty of work. They need to do massive usability testing and fix things everywhere, big and small, and maybe re-organize things significantly. You can find plenty of arguments out there about how terrible Drupal is — that’s easy — but it’s not true. ), Part of this is identifying what makes Drupal uniquely better than other systems and what its audience is, and that is the content development and site-building experience, the content modeling and views, the module ecosystem and flexible, combinatorial way in which modules work together as a set of flexible building blocks. The more custom code, the more difficult the decision. I had to dig through custom module code. There are great developers who contribute to Drupal, but there are many more site builders who do not contribute any code. Drupal’s unofficial tag line is “Come for the software, stay for the community.” Maybe you’ve heard this at a meet-up, at DrupalCon, or at one of the many Drupal camps, and it’s true. I left Drupal 5 or 6 years ago, Drupal 8 was very new, I was deep in Laravel, Vue and Angular. #1064882 Remove syscalls from calling date_default_timezone_set(), date_default_timezone_get() And the first two statements are, perhaps, necessary consequences of that change. Drupal has some nice elements in its CMS, but overall, WordPress is the easiest tool to use. Hopefully someday. https://www.drupal.org/project/libraries. It's a great tool, no doubt about that. So you could built 10 same websites which share modules, but also option to host them either on the same server, or different. I started out as a complete newbie on Drupal. For example many payment gateways in Drupal Commerce are outdated. Decoupling it entirely is the desperate attempt to regain control, since trying to do it from within Drupal is virtually hopeless. It is used on D7 also? And if you run medium-to-large size website or want to create web apps, Drupal really excels in those areas. But at least with Drupal 5 to 6 or 6 to 7, that was a choice, and you could upgrade the underlying system without also upgrading the theme. I came to Viget because our standards are higher than any place I’ve ever worked. WP created theirs and threatened to re-do it from scratch when the FB licensing issue came out. It's the power of what you can do with the admin interface. Actually, the one you answer to is perfectly right. Read the current issue. Since my update procedure consists of replacing the Core and Vendor directories and running composer update, I do not see why the replacement steps cannot be put into the composer workflow. I haven’t found a reason to use Drupal since. I’d love to continue the discussion further, so hit me up in the comments. All the best. All that makes Drupal best for large sites: if you need a lot of customization, high bandwidth, extensive guaranteed uptime, etc., then Drupal is an excellent choice. (And it doesn't help for anything but a static site, like a brochure site.). This boiled down to a cost benefit / cost of ownership issue. Decouple Drupal usage from those encroaching things I mentioned above (i.e. Thoughts about Drupal 8, Drupal 7, Backdrop, the Drupal Community, DrupalCon's meteoric price increases, DrupalCamps, and the future of the framework/CMS/enterprise experience engine that is Drupal have been bubbling up in the back of my mind for, well, years now. For ordinary developer like us it was never easier anyway but now you need to migrate. At Viget, we can figure out what the best solution is to a problem. Simple things as how to publish my content on social media, the update process (love Joomla) and a few more. But building a site with a huge part of custom code? I would assume these are CI machines or something similar. Now it's a niche platform, overly complex and is dying rapidly. (Please RT.). Drupal's always been there, and they chose Symfony, why on earth did anyone think they'd suddenly want to use Drupal? We're now started working with various players in the ecosystem to launch a solution - A collaboration of various agencies, hosting companies and our site builder (www.cohesiondx.com which cuts the effort in theming Drupal sites by 80%). Sure, you get a 1964 big block Chevy motor with a chassis that's easy to work on, but if you want the new LT2 engine and electronics package to boot, you'll have to find another platform. Most importantly, there are hardly any free themes that look good. To elaborate: Drupal 7 felt somewhat similar to Wordpress in it's technology and value proposition. (I still don't really see the point of Composer. The frustrating thing is when a major contributor of Drupal just decides to take a different path and then all the philosophy and direction dies with that company. D8, and D9 - they are dead. For people that create project for a living, this is actually rather a good thing. The overarching issue is that the Drupal community was sold on the idea that moving Drupal to Symfony would pull in thousands of other PHP developers who would flock to Drupal once it started using a more modern code architecture. Drupal 8 fosters this mentality towards contribs so the contribs end up being these lackluster gui hacks for the non-devs because "there has to be a gui but the real power is in the code". Part of the new knowledge is that Drupal is "growing up" after a long period of adolescence. Drupal hosting companies will make it easy to get set up, and help you run updates. Churchill's defense of democracy came at a time when the notion of democracy was under a … I had to research every module that had been chosen and wonder why it was chosen over what I would have recommended. Drupal 7 suited my needs for ambitious but smallish community and business websites, primarily because of a large stable of mature modules, an awesome way to model content and create custom content types, and of course Views. Modular core, so that users who do not need the JSON API, or media library, or WYSIWYG integration for everything, do not need to download all those tools, and do not need to apply updates every time a security hole is found in a sub-system they do not use. Sure, there are use cases where someone would consider either Drupal or a hip trendy decoupled web framework backend. In recent years, with the help of Digital experience platforms (DXP), global companies are focusing on creating a better digital experience that effectively … Theming in Drupal has always been poor, and it's gotten worse over the years, not better. Yes, yes, there are a thousand other arguments against multisite... but the fact is, there are a number of organizations—usually some of the orgs with hundreds or thousands of the sites that show up in the Drupal project usage statistics—who are holding off upgrading to Drupal 8 because multisite is harder, and the future of multisite is still fuzzy. 1. There are some massive benefits, like the fact that it is easier to use modern programming paradigms, dependency management tools, and site architecture. With Drupal 4, 5, 6, and 7, modules could define upgrade paths from one major version to the next through Drupal's normal update.php mechanism, and while the entire update mechanism was a very Drupal-centric oddity, it worked. Leo 1. So... a lot of people mention that because more people build custom Node.js-based single page apps using the MEAN stack, or now do hip and trendy 'full stack development', and Drupal is some old monolith, Drupal has been left in the dust. Drupal has a way of making things that should be trivially easy into nightmares that waste huge amounts of time, millions and millions of dollars worth of time across the industry, things that are NECESSARY to get a site launched, and hence, unavoidable. I've been having a rough time getting used to debugging Drupal 8. Who in the hell thought it was a good idea? Yeah, it's a very nice tool to manage dependencies. Should I upgrade to Drupal 8 now (or soon) since Drupal 8 to 9 will supposedly be a painless upgrade? It needs to play to it's strengths which means competing for the specific market which it can excel at rather than trying to be a "jack of all trades". To be honest, Drupal 7 needed the overhaul that became Drupal 8. And I always try to manage that by adding separate Behat tests which test the frontend functionality in as generic a way as possible (that way I can at least upgrade against a set of critical feature tests). But I think the moral of Drupal's saga is if you revamp many major portions of an ecosystem's architecture in one release, you have to accept the attrition that comes with such a refactoring. Drupal is the #1 platform for web content management among global enterprises, governments, higher education institutions, and NGOs. If Drupal is ever the best solution for your project we will tell you, because we will want to use it. Taking over these sites wasn’t seamless. Im amazed, the theme output and settings are way more easy to understand and implement, html output is exactly as I want, Twigs helps a lot. Warning messages from php is just an everyday part of life and you have to simply hide them and they keep filling up your logs. You dont need to convince me about digital identity. I develop at least 10+ Drupal sites a year with complex data processing that involves heavy use of modules like Rules. It's the power of what you can do with the admin interface. It powers several thousand applications and websites. That means you’re usually going to need a developer just to get something that looks good. 3. We can argue that a lot of new things are introduced in Drupal 8. Look, Drupal's current trajectory isn't looking good and the Dries-itis it's suffering from, needs excised: 1.) Well I do feel sorry for people trying to use Drupal together with PostgreSQL. Encourage module developers to provide instructions for manually obtaining libraries. PS Look, this is not a contest of who can say smarter things. In addition to the revamped architecture, new required build processes, and upgrade difficulties, almost every Drupal site has to completely rewrite its theme. Please, I've built many Drupal sites and I've hated the HTML generated by every one of them. Drupal development is abysmally slow. New API architecture often required full module rewrites. As a CMS, Drupal is quite flexible and is fully extensible because there is no proprietary code in place. No one pretends that Drupal is perfect or all-wise. Between GIT, Composer, Drupal Console, and Drush; all these things should be optional. Every day, site-builders keep downloading these broken modules with the same problems (often fatal) that just never get fixed, and every day they have to deal with the same problems and search out the same solutions and try to apply the same patches (if they even know how) that have been sitting in some issue queue for the last four years, and it's frustrating as hell and wasting all kinds of time. I am on Facebook and Linkedin. By this time, a framework still wasn't decided on for Drupal. Make something amazing, for anyone. and admit that the way it is is shitty and causing problems and needs to be changed (a bunch of things in Views, for instance), and that the current audience of Drupal developers is getting small enough that their familiarity is irrelevant. You can only make things right by ackowledging what needs to be made right. For example, Drupal is free to download and anyone can modify and extend the platform. But I'm not alone in facing this problem. I have a few sites on D8 as minor testbeds however D7 is not only more stable, but flat out faster and easier to use for a front-end developer. In reply to I could have predicted these by Mike Schinkel. Sadly I am coming to a similar conclusion. Decoupled keeps Drupal's job cleaner while still letting us leverage things it does much better than something like Wordpress (roles & permissions, elegant caching, integrations, etc). Create a tool--not sure how--so that var_dump() and similar simple debugging works at least as reliably as it does in D7 anywhere in code. Things like that seem to be much more focused on programmers self-pleasuring by automating all teh things because they can and because they think it's fun to do than actually solving any real problems of building a website. #Front-end Engineering, Drupal is a good framework for building sites accessible to people with disabilities, because many of the best practices have been incorporated into Drupal Core. Thanks for your reflections! But as soon as Drupal is in charge of the whole thing, then everything slows down, everything relies on senior Drupal developers, and everything has to be rebuild in a few years. But when taken as a whole, I do not begrudge the project managers who have to decide if and when to upgrade to Drupal 8—or sit tight on Drupal 7 LTS, or move to Backdrop, or re-platform to some other system. to make a new Drupal 8 site that the client expects within a few months. For example, a website acting as a music library containing a database of artists, albums, and songs. But it's another whole group of concepts to grasp, it's another tool that needs to be installed (or at least installable) on your host, and it's even more "technical" than Git because of the required formalism. Jeff, thank you for taking the time to write this blog post! And I don't blame them. It will still take time, and maybe even cause a little more strife in the end, as some more old Drupalisms may need to be put to rest. Views, Media and Page Builder could have been added to D7 core. .. From a financial perspective.. Drupal is absolutely dead.. And, honestly, at this point, if you get to choose, as a new project, d8 or Symfony, why in the world are you not going to just choose symfony? It is not possible to keep all happy, small, medium and big consumers of Drupal. Because of … They seem the think clients are gleefully going to shell out 5 and 6 figures to rebuild their application/site simply because Drupal says so by doing this bone-headed and tone-deaf maneuver. I don't work on a Drupal project at the moment - or perhaps even any more - all (bar one) the sites I was responsible for in my current company have been migrated over to other platforms. I'm almost $200 bucks an hour, and I'm no closer helping them achieve their goals to move to D8 than when I started.. (And, I've been developing Drupal solutions since early D5). (source: https://www.drupal.org/association/blog/drupal-business-survey-2018). However, it is not built on it, … Until Core is updated automatically via "composer update" it takes many wasted hours to update sites, especially when plugins and the core itself have bugs that give the unhelpful "website has encountered a problem" message. Final thoughts? Well yet another thing that requires some flexibility from the provider. Drupal is a free open source content management system (CMS) and content management framework (CMF) written in PHP that allows you to easily publish, manage and organize a wide variety of content on a website. That's another big reason to push away lots of users. It's 2019 as I write this...I don't see the deployment complexity being significantly resolved for at least another three years. Facebook is the place for identity, not a random url. Greatest problems? It’s arguably the most secure of the big three open source CMSs (Drupal, WordPress & Joomla!) Reported in November 2011, first patch was submitted in January 2014, still not fixed. I never took a comp sci class in my life) chose to expand their knowledge and grow with Drupal 8's new architecture. While Drupal is nice, overall, the advantage for ease of use goes to WordPress – and it’s not even close. But even with that smaller user base, Drupal still sees usage by top companies. Some Drupal developers who are not classically-trained (like me! But this meant that large swaths of Drupal experience were thrown out the window. But the slow adoption of D7 plugins to D8 (which were practically nil) well, honestly, they just decided to go with a cheaper solution - Wordpress.. Git is and should still be a problem for MANY people. Article Categories: At least it got the RTBC stamp last week! I don't give a fuck what Node developers are doing, if I did I'd be using Node, not Drupal. Who do you think wins? That said, the paid themes do look good and offer a good variety of design and functionality. In fact, this is multisite without Drupal multisite feature as we know it from D7. Feature was new hip thing, and I thought to myself dude this will take some time, will get back to it later when I have time. What used to take 1.5 seconds to install or update with Drush, takes 30 to 120 seconds with composer. Drupal alienated thousands of site-builders and developers and put many out of business. 6. The last instance was handed over to another company, it's still alive, and it caused me so much grey hair that I don't want to think about it. Drupal isn't WordPress or SquareSpace or Wix, and can't compete with them for dead simple things, and shouldn't try (and by not trying, actually stands a chance of BECOMING good at building simple sites as it gets better at building complex ones). Drupal 8 upgrade evaluation is a good place to start. Drupal. And for many of the Drupal 7 sites I've built and worked on, this is probably where the majority of the effort would need to happen. This isn’t a Drupal thing, it’s a software thing. The number of site builders Drupal is going to lose far, far outweighs the number of Symfony developers they might gain (especially as the latter number is likely to be zero. And yes, the legacy ,knowledge and community should be considered. It’s good enough to make a site and get your business going. I said no, it's a convoluted mess for anyone other than programmers. 2) Fix. There were obviously big differences between them but none-the-less it felt to me like they were both competing for the small business website / brochure-ware market. This means that sometimes the module you need may not be ready for primetime, may not be well maintained, or may not exist at all. Drupal is a perfect choice. Dries is awesome, but he's entirely too cautious as a leader. This is a most helpful article that should be widely shared by the Drupal Community. Drupal may be good, but it isn’t easy to use, manage, or maintain. I don't care about someone's personal fetishes, the color of their skin, or bullshit gender identification. you find that total number of dev-versions used is almost 70k! Definitely not. #Content Management. I am implementing my first D8 Block as a plugin. It's all there and heavily documented. In the past many of these things were kind of papered over by Drupal's simple-but-good-enough menu system, but now you have to be more formal about everything. No complaints there? I am almost always an optimist about the future, and Drupal 8 promised (and usually delivered) on many things: But one thing that has always been annoying, and now is probably to the state of alarming, for some, is the fact that Drupal 8 adoption has still not hit a level of growth which will put it ahead of Drupal 7 adoption any time soon. Prioritize improving documentation. There is always technical debt associated with custom code. Drupal can be a good option for sites that will use a lot of custom content types and taxonomies (called vocabularies in Drupal). With 'ambitious digital experiences' being the new market Drupal targets, should I still build [insert any kind of non-enterprise type of website here] on it? The ability to control the HTML generated by a Drupal site is one of the huge pain points. It is search engine friendly. And even if they do make it work, is it EVER HTML they are proud of? Every CMS and most programming languages have something similar to modules. When I was following Drupal during the times of developmentseed. Maybe a few theme and form hooks, and a few CSS files, but the theme is usually very deep and complex, and most organizations use an upgrade as an opportunity to sink another chunk of money into refreshing their site's themes anyways. Drupal is designed in such a way that makes it noticeable to Google. Interesting post and I agree with many of your points. It is free to be used by any blogger or developer. Stop trying to compete with different technologies, and just try to be the best at being what you already are! With the help of some extensions, you can create stunning multimedia content that … Loved the structured way the CMS was build. These would make it a lot more appealing to a wider audience, though honestly I don't think they're the big things killing Drupal. There are two other things that Drupal needs to focus on: 1) Clean up the admin interface. Drupal 8 simply said RIP DRUPAL.

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